Current Events vs. Founding Documents
This column presents facts regarding the United States Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Paine's book Common Sense, the Wisconsin State Constitution, and various other documents in reference to modern topics. Mark hopes to encourage interest in those works so that others can consider whether our government is practicing within its constitutional limits. In the last category, he may indicate his opinion. Mark is a resident of New Berlin and a member of Wisconsin GrandSons of Liberty. Visitors are encouraged to visit the following sites for more information on the United States Constitution and Thomas Jefferson's views on politics and government.
ACLU vs Religion in Court
Entry 12
Current Event
As reported by CNN on August 19 - (full article available on line) {this trial case is pending as of 12/4/09}
Two Florida school administrators face contempt charges and possible prison time for saying a prayer at a school luncheon.
They face a non-jury trial September 17 before U.S. District Judge Casey Rodgers. The statute under which they are charged carries a maximum penalty of up to six months in prison, subject to sentencing guidelines.
Attorneys defending Lay and Freeman call it outrageous that the two are being prosecuted for "a simple prayer." But the American Civil Liberties Union, whose lawsuit led to the consent decree, maintains that students have a right to be free from administrators foisting their religious beliefs on them.
….
On January 28, "Lay asked Freeman to offer a prayer of blessing during a school-day luncheon for the dedication of a new fieldhouse at Pace High School," according to court documents. "Freeman complied with the request and offered the prayer at the event. It appears this was a school-sponsored event attended by students, faculty and community members."
….
Liberty Counsel said it is challenging the consent decree, maintaining that it "unconstitutionally infringes on the rights of teachers, administrators and students."
VS
The opinions of a few ACLU leaders vs. the First amendment of the US Constitution.
Founding Document
The Constitution, First Amendment
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;…..
Quote from Thomas Jefferson:
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State."
We the People:
There is nothing in those words of the first amendment or in Thomas Jefferson’s clarification which prohibits the verbal prayers of any school administrator. Indeed the first amendment demands protection from prohibiting the free exercise of religion – regardless of the location.
Ironically, the civil liberties of those administrators are being attacked by the ACLU. I resigned my membership years ago because the ACLU leaders have perverted their organization’s charter.
The Liberty Counsel deserves our support for defending those administrators. The chilling effect is intimidation of any teacher or official from praying on public property. In addition, tax dollars for schools will be diverted from education. However these attacks will get worse if we are not willing to pay the costs to fight them in our school systems.
7 COMMENTS
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Still, Jefferson was clearly smart enough not to believe any of the 'magical' nonsense in the bible, which is why he wrote his own version and removed all of that.
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Most people of faith believe that it is a constitutional right to practice religion wherever, and whenver they want. Unless of course it's somebody elses faith, in which case they are a religious fanatic and have no credibility.
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Linda, those are good questions;
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Mark, nice job. However, once again Liberals try to play a game and misdirect. As submitted prior, addressing the same Liberal spew -
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The Comedian, please cite your source of information. There are internet sites which offer very questionable assertions indeed.
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Mark, you've stated, " the first amendment demands protection from prohibiting the free exercise of religion--regardless of location."
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There are also a multitude of quotes by the founding fathers lamenting the nonsensical beliefs of most followers of religion. Thomas Jefferson even wrote his own version of the bible which removed all of the 'miracles' performed by Jesus. I wouldn't want my kids around that insanity.
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Back to topTheComedian - Mar 12, 2010 1:22 PM - Report Abuse
The Borg - Mar 10, 2010 8:47 PM - Report Abuse
Mark Musselman - Mar 09, 2010 10:06 PM - Report Abuse
First, the teachers were not foisting or teaching their religion by saying a simple prayer at a luncheon.
The first amendment says that Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise of religion. What law was broken such that a federal court has jurisdiction? Such a law would violate the first amendment because Congress does not have the constitutional authority to pass it. So in this case, there was just some consent decree from a zealot federal judge who exceeded his authority.
Where in the US Constitution is freedom from another person’s religious views guaranteed? It is not; and that is why the ACLU was wrong.
In regard to the Westboro Church at funerals, no federal law is being broken, but local communities may have the authority to intervene. It is an interesting entanglement of religion and free-speech which I will consider it in a subsequent entry.
Intrigued - Mar 09, 2010 8:24 PM - Report Abuse
… the Constitution, the First Amendment, and freedom of religion is the first thing that's mentioned. And it just says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." That seals us against the fear of a state church. That's it. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." The key here is coercion. But in that First Amendment, there's no separation clause.
This phrase, separation of church and state, comes from a letter by Thomas Jefferson. He wrote it on January 1st, 1802, to the Danbury Baptist Association. He used the phrase, "a wall of separation between church and state" to describe what the First Amendment had accomplished so that these Baptists didn't need to fear state governments' declarations of days of prayer and fasting (i.e Thanksgiving), as abridging their religious rights. They didn't have to fear it because nothing could be done to them. The First Amendment protects religious expression even by individuals in government, and even in public halls and government buildings. Jefferson solidified this by concluding his letter with a reference to the common father and creator of man. Now, this letter ended up being seized on in 1947 by the Supreme Court, in a case called Emerson vs. Board of Education. The Supreme Court in '47 asserted that separation of church and state is mandated by the Constitution. That was a complete misstatement of Jefferson's record, to seize a single letter and to ignore the rest of his record and to take that whole phrase, a wall of separation, out of context.
And Jefferson was not an atheist. He was a deist - who believes in a Supreme Being.
Mark Musselman - Mar 09, 2010 7:18 PM - Report Abuse
The point is this: Even if the founding fathers had been atheists,(and one was) they affirmed the liberty of the people to practice their religion without interference from the federal government.
Linda Richter - Mar 09, 2010 5:24 PM - Report Abuse
Would you make that argument in defense of the Westboro Church, too? That sect pickets at military funerals, brandishing signs with messages such as "Thank God for Dead Soldiers" and "God Hates You," to get attention for its message of hostility to homosexuality and the Roman Catholic Church, and its claim that battlefield casualties represent divine retribution for what it views as America's sins.
According to you, "the first amendment demands protection from prohibiting the free exercise of religion--regardless of location."
FYI: The Supreme Court has agreed to take a case to decide if the father of a fallen Marine can collect damages from the Westboro Church for picketing his son's funeral with vulgar placards celebrating the death of American solidiers. For more information to to: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052748704869304575109482063466178.html
TheComedian - Mar 08, 2010 3:37 AM - Report Abuse