Conservatively Speaking

Constituents Express Concerns About Roundabouts

Posted by Mary Lazich on Oct. 7, 2011

Responding to constituent and legislators’ concerns, I called an informational hearing for the Transportation and Elections Committee about roundabouts.

Roundabouts are becoming more and more common on Wisconsin roadways with varying receptions from citizens.  One roundabout in Senate District 28, the roundabout at Moorland Road and I-43, is problematic as expressed by citizens and DOT staff.

Below are some comments, identifiers redacted to protect privacy.

Honorable Senator Lazich,

I as responding to your email notice regarding Roundabouts.

I must tell you how against them both my husband and myself are. 

They are very confusing, unattractive, and accident traps.    I have seen many, many times, accidents narrowly avoided at the roundabout at I43 and Moorland Rd in Brookfield.

I have also seen a line that backs up onto the freeway for blocks, from people trying to exit at this roundabout.

I have seen a roundabout on what used to be a country road in Wisconsin, which totally defaces the landscape and in addition, appears useless.

There is no traffic to be seen for miles.

I have heard talk of a roundabout possibly planned for my small town, East Troy, at Hwy 20, South I43.

Please do not allow any more useless, expensive, and unappealing roundabouts.  And PLEASE, do not allow one in my 'great as it is', small town,

of East Troy.

Sincerely,

Thanks Mary, Good communication job well done! Nice seasoning! Good conscientious dialogue in a open forum. The only person who would be an objector would be a person who benefits from DOT expenditures, with or without competitive bids.

Senator,

Many people complain about roundabouts.  I think that is more about the human nature to avoid change.  I think the real question to ask is if the DOT has enough data to prove that roundabouts have less accidents and less severe accidents at those intersections that have been changed to roundabouts.  If the DOT indicates there is inconclusive evidence, then I think it's time to wait until sufficient data is developed at Wisconsin roundabouts (not nationwide as drivers here are different than in different areas of the country).

I believe a secondary consideration is how much more land is required to be obtained for a roundabout as compared to traditional intersections.  This could mean trading dollars for lives, but we should at least know the cost for roundabouts versus traditional intersections.

Thank you for posing these questions on my behalf.

Sincerely,

Sen. Lazrich,

Roundabouts are stupid and dangerous. Tell the DOT stop already.

Dear Chair Mary Lazich,

Unable to attend the public hearing on October 6, 2011, I am writing to make it known that I feel that roundabouts are very dangerous.  Most of the time when I am maneuvering a roundabout people that are older don't know what to do.  They can be in one lane and then realizing they should be in the other lane; they will change lanes immediately without thinking.  My complaint is also that one minute you are going around the inner part of the roundabout and then you must change lanes to get off.  It is there that the person at the yield sign thinks you will be staying in the inner lane and you have to quickly change lane to get off.  The person at the yield sign takes off and you are on your brakes to avoid a collision.  Please do not allow any more of these complicated roundabouts to be built in of the state of Wisconsin.

We are unable to attend the informational public hearing on October 6, 2011 in Madison about the Wisconsin Department of Transportation's usage of roundabouts.  Therefore, we are emailing our comments to you in advance.  We dislike existing roundabouts and oppose their proliferation.  Roundabouts impede traffic, cause confusion, and leave many drivers frustrated which can be a dangerous situation.  Lastly, a circular intersection takes up more real estate than a traditional traffic junction. 

Please keep our thoughts in mind and do not expand this ridiculous concept.  Thank you.

Sincerely,

Just a note- I don’t like them.  I think they are dangerous.  Thank you for your news letter..

No more roundabouts.  I know DOT sends literature on how to drive in roundabouts.  Are they pushing them because they get money from the feds and don't care what citizens think.

I do not shop, go to restaurants or entertainment on Moorland/Rockridge since they put in the roundabouts.  If they put them in Hales Corners, I will stop shopping there and travel further south.  Don't know why HC has

to endure this when the citizens don't want it.   Although I don't walk

across Hwy 100, what are the disabled and those who cross going to do to get across safely in roundabouts.

Also put a spur on 43 so those going to Waukesha County can get off.

Dear Senator Lazich,

It is wonderful that the committee on transportation is holding a hearing concerning roundabouts in Wisconsin.  I believe this is a topic were you will receive much input, unfortunately I am unable to attend but would like to share my comments.

I am not in favor of the continued building of roundabouts and recommend discontinuing their usage.    My experience with roundabouts has been all negative.   I live within a few miles of multiple roundabouts that have been in place for several years.   Drivers drift from one lane into another, don’t understand who has the right-away, and are difficult to enter during high traffic periods on main arteries.  I do not have statistics but believe they are a cause for an increase in car accidents.

Life was good before the roundabout, I would like to see an end to its usage.

Sincerely,

Dear State Senator Mary Lazich-

Reference- Senate Informational Hearing-Committee on Transportation and Elections-Usage of Roundabouts

Enough of these poorly designed aids to control traffic flow, they cause more problems for the Wisconsin Drivers than Stop Signs or Traffic Light Signals ever did! (These a least control the Traffic)

With the snow and ice of the typical Wisconsin winter, Roundabouts are unsafe and a joke.

Please keep them on the East Coast of the United States and in Europe, where they belong. Wisconsin just does not need them.

Another one of Ex Governor Jim Doyle's bad ideas for Wisconsin.

Hi Mary,

In response to your e newsletter about roundabouts.  I don't like them, no one knows how to do go through them, and they get slippery even when they are dry especially on a motorcycle.

Mary:

I urge  and want more roundabouts.

They are much safer  and the wave of the future  !!

I love them

I'm sorry I'm so late sending you my comments.  I know the committee meeting is today, but I want to voice my opposition to more roundabouts.

I find these very dangerous and confusing.  With an aging population, I think it will be even more dangerous in the future.  Trying to figure out where you are supposed to go, what lane you're supposed to be in, watching for all entering traffic.  I hate roundabouts and will do what I can to avoid going through them.  In New Berlin/Muskego I now try to find other routes to get where I want to go.  I used to enjoy driving down Moorland Road toward Muskego to go to the Kohls down there.  Now I rarely go there anymore preferring to use traditional roads to go to other locations.

My husband and I were recently out in the Dells and it took us several times on and off the expressway to figure out how to get where we wanted to go.

I also feel these are hard on your car and tires and must be a nightmare for tractor trailer drivers.

Please, no more roundabouts and get rid of the ones we have.

Thank you.

We are unable to attend the informational public hearing on October 6, 2011 in Madison about the Wisconsin Department of Transportation's usage of roundabouts.  Therefore, we are emailing our comments to you in advance.  We dislike existing roundabouts and oppose their proliferation.  Roundabouts impede traffic, cause confusion, and leave many drivers frustrated which can be a dangerous situation.  Lastly, a circular intersection takes up more real estate than a traditional traffic junction. 

Please keep our thoughts in mind and do not expand this ridiculous concept.  Thank you.

Sincerely,

I can't attend your meeting.  I do feel that roundabouts are a waste of public taxpayer money and time.  Please spend this money rather repairing existing roads in our district, burying/protecting the galaxy of overhead utility lines, providing support to the public education system, or just save it for something relatively more important.

thx

Mary,

    I won't be able to attend the hearings, but my experience with roundabouts is scary. I feel I am a competent driver, but I am unsure about those around me. People are easily confused by the roundabouts. I don't believe they make things safer. I think they are a waste of resources and I don't support them.

I understand that there is a hearing scheduled for this coming Thursday, October 6, 2011, by the Wisconsin State Senate Committee on Transportation and Elections, regarding the continued use of roundabouts in Wisconsin.

Unfortunately, I am unable to attend.

My wife, daughter and I are vehemently opposed to ANY further development of roundabouts.  In fact, we would love to see the removal of those already in place.

Regardless where the idea came from, these are - and have been proven to be - antithetical to the way we drive in Wisconsin.  They create choke points where none are warranted.  I am aware that was probably the misguided goal of folks in the Department of Transportation, but it should not have been.

Two perfect examples of places where the deployment of these 'improvements' have proven to be just plain silly are the on and off ramps to I-43 at Moorland Road in New Berlin, and the impediments to traffic flow along Racine Avenue in Waukesha County, near I-43 and further south toward Wind Lake.

This is - without question - yet another DOT boondoggle, not unlike the Big Green Wall they thought would be a good idea, on Milwaukee's south side.

We encourage you to do everything you can to correct this.

Thanks,

Senator Lazich,

I am in favor of more roundabouts in our area. I know there is reluctance to change, however roundabouts are an effective way to deal with traffic in intersections.

I am not sure I will be able to attend the October 6 hearing concerning the Department of Transportation’s plans for future roundabouts.

I would like to take this opportunity to express my opposition to the construction of any more roundabouts in the state.  Especially in this time of economic uncertainty, money budgeted for highways would be better spent on repair and up keep of existing roads.  There are certainly plenty of areas that need attention.  Learning to drive in the Chicago area many years ago, I had to navigate a roundabout on Gulf Road in Arlington Heights several times a week.  I found roundabouts to be dangerous and silly then and I have not changed my opinion.  I have seen backups of cars on Moorland Rd and the freeway exit ramps. (Any argument that roundabouts save energy is faulty.) I have barely avoided colliding with other autos on three occasions while in the roundabouts on Moorland because the drivers did not understand the routes or rules of using roundabouts. While waiting to enter the roundabout when exiting I-43, I have watched big semi trucks try to navigate through the turns. The looks on the drivers’ faces were anything but pleasant. Roundabout construction is a waste of time and money and not in the public interest.  I urge the committee to halt any future construction on roundabouts in the state. 

On a lighter note, in the movie National Lampoon’s European Vacation (admittedly not a very good film) the funniest scene was Chevy Chase trying to navigate a roundabout in London.  There’s a reason why the filmmaker chose to mock the roundabouts. They don’t work. Let’s keep them as a European point of interest.

Thank you,

Senator Lazich,

We now have 5 city built roundabouts and 4 will be opened next week by the DOT as part of the reconstruction of US Hy. 41.  We have found that roundabouts are safer, less costly to construct, are more environmentally friendly and result in significantly reduced accidents that cause serious injury or property damage.  With multi lane roundabouts there is a learning curve for motorists and a major education effort is essential but over the course of time the wisdom of installing roundabouts will be proven as traffic moves more smoothly and safely.  I hope your committee will come to that same conclusion and support the continued construction of roundabouts.

My wife thinks they're crazy.  I think they take getting used to.  I think they require faster reaction times which may spell trouble with an aging society.   They vary in complexity.  The roundabout at I43 and Moorland Road in New Berlin is tricky and therefore dangerous.   I believe they will be torn up and replaced after a few old folks die in horrendous crashes.

I like the roundabouts as they keep traffic moving.  People would like them a lot more if they would slow to the speed limit before they enter it.  Keep them coming.  

Dear Senator Lazich

Thank you for your e-mail re the hearings on roundabouts.

I will be unable to attend the meeting, but I think roundabouts as they7 are built in Wisconsin are horable.  I have used the one from the Moorland exit from 43.  It is poorly designed and using it scares me a lot.

I have driven on roundabouts in New Jersey and Ireland, and I do not like any of them.  But in NJ and Ireland they have three (3) lanes, not two (2) lanes like Wisconsin's

Honorable Senator Lazich,

I as responding to your email notice regarding Roundabouts.

I must tell you how against them both my husband and myself are. 

They are very confusing, unattractive, and accident traps.    I have seen many, many times, accidents narrowly avoided at the roundabout at I43 and Moorland Rd in Brookfield.

I have also seen a line that backs up onto the freeway for blocks, from people trying to exit at this roundabout.

I have seen a roundabout on what used to be a country road in Wisconsin, which totally defaces the landscape and in addition, appears useless.

There is no traffic to be seen for miles.

I have heard talk of a roundabout possibly planned for my small town, East Troy, at Hwy 20, South I43.

Please do not allow any more useless, expensive, and unappealing roundabouts.  And PLEASE, do not allow one in my 'great as it is', small town,

of East Troy.

Sincerely,

Senator Lazich,

I think that there are enough roundabouts in Wisconsin right now. Before any more construction projects are started, the one's that have been in progress for weeks and months should be finished. The Mitchell interchange construction severely affects traffic and the alternates just don't do a good enough job of keeping traffic moving.

Thank you,

Thank you for bringing this issue up. Round abouts make no sense to me as to what purpose they serve. They are hard to navigate and get through. If there is a valid reason for them, I am not aware of it.
 
Please do what you can to control the spread of these.
 
Thank you for serving our community

Hi  Mary.  I think most roundabouts save time by  not having to wait through stop lights.  The signs on the roadway make it obvious when to yield  to oncoming cars.  However, the one exception is our New Berlin roundabout and entry to our theater.  Coming from the north, we thought we were in the right lane to swing into the theater entrance, and had a squad car follow us in.  We know the  inner lane takes us around, and not off, but apparently we were too far to the right and cut off this police  officer coming from  south.  Please don't put them in highly congested areas. Thanks.

Senator Lazich,

Please put an end to the madness. I have heard estimates of over $2 million per roundabout. This is crazy. I do not feel the presumed benefit comes close the actual cost, and the negatives are many. Please replace any Doyle DOT leftovers as they have proven they do not listen to the voters and I am quite sick of it. Fire em all!!! I have attempted to talk with them in the past and when they find out I am against their personal plans of total control they  ignored me. This arrogance should be rewarded with pink slips! If they disagree with me let’s talk but to just ignore a taxpayer is unconscionable. I have never been rude just factual. Fire em all!!!   

Dear Mary,

   Thank you for your notice re the meeting in Madison about roundabouts.

   I think they take up too much land and are a waste of money.

   Until people were accustomed to the Moorland Road roundabouts in New Berlin (and so many STILL aren't), police were parked nearby in case there was (and there WERE quite a few I'm told!) an accident.  I try to avoid using Moorland Road (and so don't/can't patronize the businesses).   Even the little roundabout at 116th and Grange is a hazard; people don't how to drive it.

Am against the roundabouts....   that's my comment.    Thank you for your good work. 

I do not like the roundabouts.  I think they are putting in way too many.

Thank you for informing us about the meeting.

Sen. Lazrich,

Roundabouts are stupid and dangerous. Tell the DOT stop already.

Who ever thought of this is not thing right . this will create more confusion. you dont know where the other cars are going and this is not good for seniors. this is just waste of money.

Senator Lazich, thank you for the information about the meeting. Neither my wife or I will be able to attend this meeting.
However I would like to express our total dislike for roundabouts.  We see no good in them and feel some confusion at times.
 
Thank you for your good work.
 
Your constituents,

I do not like roundabouts. People are not used to them and lack of familiarity makes them dangerous. if traffic is light, there is no need for them even though  they are easy to navigate. When traffic is heavy, I feel like I am taking my life in my hands because I am not sure what people are going to do. Semis are particularly worrisome.Tell our DOT engineers that this is NOT the U.K. Best Regards and thanks for asking,

What is the reason for the roundabouts?

Are they  considered easier than stop lights?

It seems some people need instructions how to use them.

I have an observation about roundabouts: they do not belong in Wisconsin. Unless Wisconsin is building new roads – and I don’t mean altering something about an existing road, I mean putting in a road in a place where there was not previously a road – then Wisconsin is not building roundabouts, it is experimenting with a mostly foreign concept at the expense of the lives of us drivers. Why? For starters, because the thinking that goes into building a roundabout as part of a new road is different from the thinking that is needed to alter a road and replace a stretch of road that is familiar to drivers with a foreign concept for which they are not trained. And, while neither approach is desirable from my point of view, altering an existing road is a worse approach. In addition, the rules of our roads are inconsistent with the unique requirements created by roundabouts. One is forced to ignore lane-change and signalling rules because, in part, there is not enough distance to negotiate a roundabout and still comply with normal laws. Has Wisconsin altered its rules of the road to accommodate roundabout driving?

Take a look at the roundabout that was dumped on South Racine Avenue (County Road Y) at I-43. I avoid it like the plague. Each one has a different traffic control pattern (who has to yield to whom). As many times as I have used it I still approach it with trepidation. Its presence, its design, its patterns all create uncertainty in driving. I have heard that roundabouts have reduced accidents but I don’t think it is because they are safer. I think it is only by the grace of God, the fear of drivers who are scared to use it, and the slower speeds that drivers reach that the statistics are not worse. Perhaps you think the slower speeds are a good thing; I don’t, because they are not by design, they are by fear and uncertainty. Perhaps you think fear and uncertainty in a driver is a good thing; I don’t. Respect, yes; fear and uncertainty, no. Fear and uncertainty create hesitation; hesitation creates frustration; frustration leads to anger which, in a car, leads to road rage. That intersection is horrible from my perspective. And no one I know that has travelled on it has anything nice to say about it.

Frankly, roundabouts do not belong in most states in this nation. American drivers are not trained in the art of “roundabout thinking” much less “roundabout driving.” Americans are trained for “point-and-go” driving. Americans are trained for “convenience” driving. Americans revel too much in “distracted” driving – texting, blabbering on the phone, blaring their car home theater sound system, putting on their coffin-ready makeup, and so on – to understand – to want to understand – the principles of roundabout driving. Americans approach a roundabout from the perspective that they have the right of way until proven otherwise. Americans are daring drivers who invite road rage because each of them owns the road and is not willing to share it with others. The words “yield the right of way” are not in the vocabulary of the average driver. The idea that being hit from behind can be anything but the fault of the driver behind you is foreign to us – but the attitude “C’mon. Rear-end me so I can collect” is quite common. I have driven in Europe, Asia, and Mexico. Americans do not think like the peoples of the rest of the world. Americans are arrogant drivers who will not yield an inch of “their” road, yet will take “your” road whenever they can – because it is “their” road and you just happen to be on it until they want it.

No roundabouts. Please! Leave them in Europe.

Dear Chair Mary Lazich,

Unable to attend the public hearing on October 6, 2011, I am writing to make it known that I feel that roundabouts are very dangerous.  Most of the time when I am maneuvering a roundabout people that are older don't know what to do.  They can be in one lane and then realizing they should be in the other lane; they will change lanes immediately without thinking.  My complaint is also that one minute you are going around the inner part of the roundabout and then you must change lanes to get off.  It is there that the person at the yield sign thinks you will be staying in the inner lane and you have to quickly change lane to get off.  The person at the yield sign takes off and you are on your brakes to avoid a collision.  Please do not allow any more of these complicated roundabouts to be built in of the state of Wisconsin.

Senator Lazich,

Thank you for your notice of public meeting on the subject of recent roundabout highway intersection activity by our Department of Transportation.

This subject needs discussion to provide review for the engineering guidelines in which the department has implemented roundabouts in Wisconsin.

As I have driven around or ridden around roundabouts (for decades) in many other parts of the world, in countries that have used roundabouts for decades, there is no understanding for the total lack of knowhow that our highway engineers (loosely used term) personnel have used during their implementation of this worthwhile and efficient intersection design. Experienced global travelers all laugh at these current attempts.

It’s clear that these folks have either never seen a really well operating roundabout, or their naivety can only be that we hire the very least experienced or the lowest grade score of civil-highway engineers.

Any intelligent observer that observes drivers going through a Wisconsin roundabout can see that they are TOO SMALL IN DIAMETER TO ACCOMMODATE THE RANGE OF VEHICLE AT A REASONABLE SPEED WITHOUT RISKING A CRASH OR GOING OVER THE PAVEMENT EDGES OR CURBING WHEN PRESENT. Further the

The one and only thing they are achieving is that they we now require the use of YIELD RIGHT OF WAY signs to the point of being ridiculous!

A correctly designed roundabout provides a large enough diameter to accomplish passage through with the minimum amount of potential avoidance and braking.

Roundabouts can accommodate intersections with as many as six or eight points of ingress or egress (hexagon and octagon) again by increasing the diameter.

I can just imagine what this State’s outcome would be for a 8 entry-octagon roundabout…..maybe just one continuous Yield sign and you could never enter or leave.

Thanks again for providing the forum to discuss. Unfortunate my schedule cannot allow attendance, but perhaps for my blood pressure and focus on my interests.

Roundabout at hwy 83 and co rd I, just another example of your failed leadership!  Absurd and pompous email, when will you start to listen?

Thanks Mary, Good communication job well done! Nice seasoning! Good conscientious dialogue in a open forum. The only person who would be an objector would be a person who benefits from DOT expenditures, with or without competitive bids.

Thank you for letting me know about the roundabouts proposed for the areas in Wisconsin.  I am very apposed to these confusing ways to reprogram the way we do things. Why must we turn this country into another Europe. Those roundabouts do nothing but cause confusion, in a already better way to get around the area and they cost a lot of money that is really not necessary. Another way to spend tax payers hard earned money for a no good purpose. This is the United States of America not France or any other foreign country. Thank you.